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Savage Messiah: Ken Russell => Savage Messiah: Ken Russell => Topic started by: BoyScoutKevin on March 12, 2014, 09:34:04 PM

Title: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on March 12, 2014, 09:34:04 PM
Until such time, as I can find another version of Ken's "The Devils" or any of his theatrical films on the world wide web or anywhere else, we'll run these questions from "Lair of the White Worm" past one for one's entertainment. And answers are welcome.

Just ask yourself . . .
Ken . . .

01. Whence the boldness? While there have been men seduced and murdered by women in films, for the most part they have all been adult males, Kevin is one of the few underage males to be seduced and murdered by a woman.

02. Despite Ken's apparent disdain for the scouts, and the scene's comic situation, since Kevin is such a realistic creation, was there any of Ken in Kevin, when Ken was a teen?

Next time: Sylvia
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on March 30, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Sylvia
Answers welcomed

Q03. How old was she? We know that she was alive in 288 A.D. And when did she die? No later than 1988, but did the film take place--supposedly--before then?

Q04. Why was she so opposed to Erny going to the hospital for treatment for the snakebite on his ankle?

Q05. If it had been a public function in a public place, such as the local pub, she'd probably be arrested for serving alcohol to an underage minor, Kevin, but what about a private function in a private home, could she be arrested for serving alcohol to a minor?

Q06. "And a scout does a good deed every day." What if she had been wearing Kevin's scout uniform, since they were about the same size, when she tempted Eve from the apple tree in the orchard near Stonerigg Cavern?

Q07. As her thrall, why did she choose Mrs. Trent over Mr. Trent?

Q08. And why not Kevin as her thrall, instead of Mrs. Trent, as he'd most likely be less recognized as a missing person?

Q09. Was her body ever recovered from the belly of the wyrm? And Kevin's?

Next time: Kevin
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: Iain Fisher on March 30, 2014, 09:28:22 PM
Quote
Q05. If it had been a public function in a public place, such as the local pub, she'd probably be arrested for serving alcohol to an underage minor, Kevin, but what about a private function in a private home, could she be arrested for serving alcohol to a minor?

In the UK you cannot buy/ sell alcohol to someone under 18.  A child under 5 may not drink alcohol.  Children from 5-18 can drink beer in a private place, so Sylvia could legally offer Kevin a drink.
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on March 30, 2014, 09:40:52 PM
Quote
Q05. If it had been a public function in a public place, such as the local pub, she'd probably be arrested for serving alcohol to an underage minor, Kevin, but what about a private function in a private home, could she be arrested for serving alcohol to a minor?

In the UK you cannot buy/ sell alcohol to someone under 18.  A child under 5 may not drink alcohol.  Children from 5-18 can drink beer in a private place, so Sylvia could legally offer Kevin a drink.

T

Thank-you for that answer. I presume the same thing would apply if it had happened here in the U.S. Of course, if it had been illegal, that probably be the least of her worries, as she would go on to commit . . .

sex with an underage minor, since we can presume he was under 16,
sexual assault on an underage minor,
murder in the 1st degree,
and various charges of theft, as she probably stole, after he was dead, whatever he was wearing and whatever he had in his rucksack, which I need to list sometime in the future.

Thank-you again for the answer. It is nice to know that the laws in some foreign countries are probably not much different than the laws here in the U.S.
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on April 09, 2014, 09:07:47 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Kevin
Answers welcomed

Q10: When did one realize he'd soon be wyrm food?
A: As for myself, as soon as I saw him standing by the side of the road in the rain, trying to thumb a ride, I'd knew what his fate would be.

Q11: Since they indicate his age, what was the colour of his garter tabs?

Q12: Why did he not only put his rucksack, but also his coat and hat in the back?

Q13: Since Sylvia did not give him the keys to get into the back, how did he get into the back?
A: I know some cars have a trunk or boot release near the dashboard, but I don't know whether that year and make of car does or does not.

Q14: What happened to the uniform he was wearing and the rest of his things?

Q15: Whys?
a. a boy scout?
b. is he wearing such an outdated uniform?
c. most likely underage?
d. is he shown suffering from acne?
e. homely instead of handsome?
f. is he so sexually passive?

Q16: And why a girlfriend? Since that would work against him being a virgin, and next to the Trents, he is probably the most hetero character in the film.

Arguablely . . .

If Little Maria (played by Marilyn Harris) in 1931's "Frankenstein" is the best example of murdered child victim of a female persuasion in horror films, then Kevin (played by Chris Pitt) in "Lair of the  White Worm" is the best murdered child victim of a male persuasion in horror films.

And it is also an example of Ken Russell's boldness, when making a film. Something similiar happens in the recent "Under the Skin," as a female driver picks up a male thumbing a ride, probably for sexual purposes, takes him to where she lives, and then kills him, when he gets naked. But, all her victims seem to be adult males. Only Ken Russell in all his boldness, is one of the few to use a character that is underage and played by an underaged actor.

Next time: the Trents and Erny. 
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on April 17, 2014, 10:02:31 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
The Trents and Erny
Answers welcomed

Q17: Why did the Trents turn their farmhouse into a B&B?
A: Though, a better question may be why them and not their daughters, as it would be more logical for the sisters to turn the farmhouse into a B&B after their parents disappeared, but the farmhouse was turned into a B&B by the parents, before they disappeared?

Q18: Was there a thrall before Mrs. Trent?

Q19: How did they get from Temple Grove to Temple House without leaving a trail that could be followed?

Q20: When was Mr. Trent fed to the wyrm?
A: Was he one of last year's first or one of last year's last, and if he was one of last year's first, why the fuss the next year about the first sacrifice being a virgin sacrifice?

Erny
Q21: Why did he not pick up that Sylvia . . .
a. Never ages?
b. Knew it was a pocketwatch found at Stonerigg Cavern?
A: Actually, there is an answer for b. We can presume that he was not a local, but had married the local Mrs. Trent, but that he had lived in the area since his first daughter was born. Thus, anybody else who was more or less local such as Sylvia and Erny would know that he carried a pocketwatch.

Q22: Is there anything he cannot handle?
A: In another series of mystery novels, whenever there is a suspicious death in a village much like the one in the film, the police from the nearest big city are called in to investigate. This does not seem to be the case in this case.

Q23: When were they going to report his death?

Q24: If he had survived at the end of the film, would there have been a report of another mysterious disappearance?

Q25: Is he married?

Next time: Mary and Eve
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on May 11, 2014, 07:22:33 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Mary and Eve
Answers welcomed

Mary
Q26: What was all that about? Her rather bizarre phone call to Derby Station?

Q27: Who subdued her at Temple House? And how?
A: We know it was not Erny, because he was being led off by Angus on the bagpipes. It'd seem to be Sylvia, who bites people (Angus, Erny, Kevin, etc.) to subdue them. Thus, the next question.

Eve
Q28: When is she in the greatest danger? At the beginning of the film or the ending of the film?
A: With Angus, James, and Mary being bitten, and likely infected, she is likely, as has been pointed out, in greatest danger at the end of the film.

Q29: How did she get to Derby Station?

Q30: And why Derby?
A: If the film was taking place in a real place, instead of a fictional one, Sheffield would be closer to the place than Derby.

Mary and Eve
Q31: Who is the older of the two sisters?
A: Here we have a clue, as normally among siblings, the oldest takes the leadership role, and here that is clearly Mary.

Q32: How is it known that Eve is still a virgin and Mary is not?

Next time: Angus and James
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on June 03, 2014, 12:19:01 AM
Just ask yourself . . .
Angus and James
Answers welcomed

Angus
Q33: How did he manage to get his hands on a real, live handgrenade?

Q34: What else does his sporran contain?

James
Q35: Why the need to wear his RAF uniform to visit Sylvia at Temple House?

Q36: Why does he need so many maids?

Q37: If the men at Stonerigg Cavern were his employees, where would they be employed?

Q38: When did his father die?
A: "My first as lord of the manor . . ." So we know it was sometime between last year's celebration and this year's celebration, but can we narrow it down more than that.

Q39: And did he die, before or fater the Trent girls' parents disappeared, and how soon before or after?

Next time: Peters and Jesus.
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on June 08, 2014, 10:48:06 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Peters and Jesus
Answers welcomed.

Peters
Q 40: Why is his first appearance in the film at the buffet table?

Jesus
Q 41: Why is he clean shaven?

Next time: Miscellaneous
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on June 20, 2014, 12:48:09 AM
Just ask yourself . . .
Miscellaneous
Answers welcomed

Q42: When does it take place?
A: A possible answer lies in the vehicles we see in the film.

1961 Land-Rover 88 Series III
1963 Jaguar E-Type
1971 Morris Minor 1000
1984 Morgan 4/4
19?? Morris 6 wct O-Type Van (the pickup seen in the film being a cut down version)

Thus, as models come out, normally, during the last half of the year, and the film takes place during the first half of the next year, we are probably looking at a date from 1985 to 1988.

Q43: How many people were fed to the wyrm?
A: Keeping it to the minimum, or 1 just before the wyrm goes into hibernation each year, and 1 just after the wyrm comes out of hibernation each year, we have . . .

1984 - 286 = 1698 years x 2 or 3396 +
1985 1 person (Kevin) or 3396 + 1 = 3397

Q44: Would she have gotten away with it?
A: Unfortunately, the answer is probably yes. The U.K. did not get a trained police force till the 1st half of the 19th century, and that was in London, with trained police coming to the countryside some time after that. And if she had stuck to the most part to lone hikers or people trying to thumb a ride, such as the boy scout, she still might have gotten away with it.

The Village

Q45: If a town has . . .
2 policemen
a Chinese takeaway
a pub
a taxi service

. . . then how many people does the town have?
A: Here the possible answer comes from another book, where a town of 2500 has a police force of 5 or 2500 divided by 5 or = 500. Thus, 500 x 2 = 1000 population.

Q46: What is the name of the town or village?
A: Someone suggest the town or village had been named after the local lord or the name of the town or village was D'Ampton. Which makes alot of sense.

Next time: the B&B
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on June 25, 2014, 10:35:07 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Miscellaneous (B&B)
Answers welcomed.

Q47: Why did Kevin not stop at the B&B, since he passed right by it, instead of continuing on to the youth hostile in the next town?
A: If this had been a true incident, instead of a fictional film, the sad thing would have been, if he had stopped, instead of continuing on, he'd most likely still be alive instead of being wyrm food.

Q48: Was it full up?
A: Maybe that is why he did not stop. It looked like the B&B had only 4 bedrooms. One we know was Angus' room. One was Eve's room, and if Mary shared a room with Eve, that left only 2, and we know there were at least 2 more guests staying there. At 1st, I thought the 2 were sharing a room, but if they each had their own room, then there were no rooms at the B&B for Kevin.

Q49: Who else was staying there, besides Angus.
A: At 1st, I thought it might be our Ken and the person he was seen with, who we see in the film, but as that person was believed to be a woman, specifically Ken's wife, and the other guests mentioned, the ones who got potluck at the pub, seem to have been male, that's not true.

Q50: When Sylvia picked up Kevin, where was the skull, since it was not on the passenger seat of the car, where we saw her place it?
A: It could have been in back of the car, but more likely she had already returned it to Temple House. As Mercy Farm B&B is only a mile from Temple House, she'd have enough time in the film to pick up the skull at Mercy Farm, take it back to Temple House, and then return to the spot by the road, where she picked up Kevin.

To be continued . . .
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on July 08, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Miscellaneous
Answers welcomed

Q51: Since we know what the Rebel Roman Emperor looked like, because coinage with his profile on them still exists, why did we not get coins and a bust with his face on them?

Q52: Stonerigg Cavern? On private or public land?

Q53: Why is there smoke near Temple House, when nothing should be burning?

To be continued . . .
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on July 17, 2014, 11:12:57 PM
Just ask yourself . . .
Miscellaneous
Answers welcomed.

Q54: If toxic gas did not scotch the wyrm, why would dynamite be better?

Q55: Why does the dialogue sound better, when it is dubbed into German?

Q56: How realistic is the film?
A: For someone who puts down realism in films, Ken is quick to point how the realistic moments in "The Music Lovers," "Lisztomania," "Valentino," etc. And it is not only these films that come off as being more or less than realistic, so does "The Boy Friend," especially the back stage scenes. And here, what is realistic here? It is the relationships between the characters.

Angus and Erny: the outsider and the local
James and Peters: the master and the servant.
Kevin and Sylvia: the sexual naif and the sexual predator.
Mary and Eve: the two sisters.

All strike me as being more or less realistic, if exaggerated.

And that is all the questions for now.

Next time: Some final thoughts on the film.


Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on July 23, 2014, 05:07:04 PM
Certainly, "Lair of the White Worm" is not the best of Ken's theatrical films nor is it the worst. It is hard to know where to place it on a list of "best to worst," but I do think it is his most interesting film. If only because he throws in so many interesting and educational facts into the film, which does speak to his wide spread knowledge of all things. Facts about . . .

animal husbandry -- archaeology -- the arts: film and theater -- entomology -- folklore -- herpetology -- history -- linguistics -- medicine -- paleontology -- religion -- and sociology.

Next time: some facts about Kevin.
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 01, 2014, 09:55:03 PM
Another interesting thing about "Lair of the White Worm" is how much additional information one can extrapolate from it given what Ken tells you in the film. For example, if Kevin had been a real person, instead of a fictional character, and if he had survived his journey, this is the route he most likely would have taken. (All distances are approximate.)

Thursday, March 17
Sheffield
He spends the night in the city in which he lives with his mum.

Friday, March 18
After school and wearing his scout uniform, do scouts still wear their uniforms to school, I know they use to do so.
He travels by bus or train the 10 miles or so to Hattersage,
where he spends the night at the youth hostile in town.

Saturday, March 19
He hikes the 18 miles or so to Langsett,
where he spends the night at the youth hostile in town.

Sunday, March 20
If he had survived,
he'd have hiked the 10 miles or so to Crowden-in-Longdendale,
where he'd have spent the night at the youth hostile in town.

Monday, March 21
If he had survived,
he'd have taken the bus the 22 miles or so back to Sheffield,
where he'd have been met by his little girlfriend.

Next time: what was in Kevin's knapsack?
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 10, 2014, 07:59:56 PM
Have you ever wondered what Kevin had in his knapsack or rucksack? I have. Thus, using recommendations provided by the Scout Association of the U.K. This is what he had.

jeans (1 pair)
jumper (1)
shirt (1 long sleeved)
socks (2 pair)
thick socks (1 pair)
t-shirts (3)
trainers
underpants (3)
body and hair gel
deodorant
face cloth or sponge
sun cream
talc
toothbrush
toothpaste
towel
plastic laundry bag
plastic water bottle
1st aid kit

Next time: also carried
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 19, 2014, 05:20:57 PM
Also carried . . .

mouth organ
pocket New Testament
pyjamas
scout manual
Star Trek novel
swim briefs
swim cap
swimming goggles
torch

Next time: Questionable





Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 29, 2014, 10:16:54 PM
Questionable:

bowl
mug
plate
knife
fork
spoon
sunhat
sponge bag

Next time: Not carried
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on September 14, 2014, 07:38:47 PM
Not carried

camping mat
jacket
sleeping bag
small rucksack
waterproof

Next time: What he wore.
Title: Re: Just Ask Yourself . . .
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on September 24, 2014, 08:34:17 PM
What he wore.

From top to bottom.
From outside to inside.

campaign hat (stetson)
anorak
kerchief (scarf)
shirt (short sleeves)
t-shirt
web belt
short trousers
underpants
hiking boots
hose (knee socks)

And that's that.

Next time: "Mirror images" both within the same film and across films.