Author Topic: Space in Cleansed- Chrissie  (Read 17215 times)

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Jess Cully
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2007, 09:14:37 PM »
A dancing dwarf ?!?

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Jaidn
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2007, 09:13:47 PM »
yltcaxe ;)

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Chloe
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 09:13:01 PM »
The Red Room...where I lost my heart to a dancing dwarf! :)

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Re: Re: Space in Cleansed- Jaidn
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 09:11:37 PM »
One thing that struck me last week was the colour of the room... 'The Red Room'

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Chrissie
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 09:10:47 PM »
Yes, it's complicated. Perhaps for a deeper sight it could be instructiv to regard the two or three worlds in wich Tinker operates: 1)inside the university: 1.1) The Grace etc. world 1.2.) The Peep-Show 2) outside the university: The Rod/Carl world.

Inside he acts as a helping figure for Grace and Robin, without being aware about the evil he does. He acts like a professional 'doing his job'. On the contrary I have the impression, that in the peep show scenes, although that's usually a public place, he is more private than in the other scenes.

Outside he is watching most of the time. And that's the reason why I asked before: WHAT does he see? Carl and Rod are homosexual, they cannot be rivals in his desire for Grace. He cuts systematically off the 'lying limbs' of Carl and murders Rod. Carl represents the conventional side of partnership (to marry etc.) and Tinker reveales its mendaciousness.

I think cruelties and injuries can be understood highly metaphorically in Kane's plays.

I'm not sure, if the 'victims' feel any pain by getting hurt. Only in the red room, there's pain. But pain which is mostly (the cutting of the tongue reminds me of the outside scenes) without any visual injuries.

It's very hard to get this thougts sorted, especially in English.

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Chloe
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 09:10:02 PM »
Well...regarding the character of Tinker: I would say that instead of saying that he is "evil" or "dangerous" perhaps instead we could say that he is most definitely manipulative and controlling? I mean, in some ways, he treats the lives of the other characters as if they were pawns in an elaborate, macabre and rather morbid game of his, moving them around, as if on a chess board, trying to gage their reactions, and, by extenstion of this, their limits of endurance, which ultimately could be seen as sacrficial...you know, how much are you willing to sacrifice, to give up, to be martyred for this love you profess?

So even tho the physical torture he inflicts is unbelievably brutal in nature, maybe the REAL torture is more mental and emotional, as if he is almost taking the characters to task in this way, how much ARE they willing to give up, for love? Well...these are just some thoughts, and I'm still not fully awake yet so...go easy on me! :)

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Chrissie
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2007, 09:09:13 PM »
To Tinker compare what I wrote on 14/15-01 under the subject 'Cleansed - I had a theory'.

Also, I'm further on interested on your thoughts concerning the structure of the setting and general opinions of a possible stage scenery.

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Re: Space in Cleansed --> Tinker- Chrissie
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2007, 09:08:31 PM »
I really don't think, that Tinker is only evil. It would be too simple and I don't think it would be interesting to stage this play then. For me Kane's characters are much too ambivalent and I think Tinker mainly is a 'nice guy' for the audience and then act as he does. And the fatality is, that the audience and the other figures underestimate the danger he represents. I think he is not evil, but highly dangerous.

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Jaidn
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2007, 09:07:51 PM »
That is a point, though another thing that comes to mind when reading 'Cleansed' is a quote from the film 'The Addiction'. "We are not evil becouse of the evil that we do, we do evil becouse we are evil". Which seems to sum up Tinker quite nicely. I beleve that the quote was origanaly taken from a Anti Vietnam peice, though I don't know.

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Chrissie
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2007, 09:07:13 PM »
There's no doubt that there are parallels, but I think for an "analysis" of the text, for an "imaginary" staging the relationship between the characters is more interesting than the Third Reich as a model for its use as metaphor. I want to look behind this metaphor to gain possible meanings and that's a hopeless venture on your own. What's important with the concentration-camp-thing is the extreme situation, that everybody (victim and perpetrator) is 'thrown back' on his own bare existence and has to act in extreme ways. And for this reason this surrounding is relevant for 'Cleansed'. But the characters themselves are not Nazis and jews. This are modern people of our days. They have no Hitler to obey and punishment in this play does not clearly result from a law-and-order-ideology. It results from and affects personal and emotional relationships (also to oneself) and not social or political status. I find it very difficult to itemise this play.

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Jaidn
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2007, 09:06:44 PM »
Well I looked up the 'Blasted' thing in a copy of 'scumbals' book, and it re printed the review, as well as Ravenhills comment from another paper about 'being cruel just becouse...' his funaral speech, and a thing from Alan Corin criticising the review as bad journalisum.

Though I didn't buy the book, even though it had been reduced to £1.

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Jess Cully
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2007, 09:06:08 PM »
The inmates do seem to be imprisoned - Robin says he 'could be released in 30 years' and it is his realising how long this is that finally drives him to kill himself.

What was Ravenhill's counter to the infamous Blasted review? I'd like to know this. (Though Mark did accept an invitation to speak at the scumball's funeral...)

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Jaidn
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 09:05:21 PM »
There is a point that they are not held there that voilently, though there is a fence and they can't get out seemingly.

Though I think alot of what Tinker dose is sadistic just becouse he hates them. Which put's you in mind of Mark Ravenhills counter to the imfamaus 'Blasted' review.

Though wit the Mengele thing there are some parreles, when he would work with twins part of it would be not to see how the twin he harmed reacted, but the one who was forced to observe. Tinker is doing the similer thing though with lovers. Watching to see if there is any change in how Rod reacts to Carl befour and after.

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Chrissie
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 09:04:41 PM »
A counterargument to the concentration camp and Tinker/Mengele hypothesis is that, firstly there are no signs that the others are forced to stay at this university, and secondly Tinker watches the "victims" BEFORE he cuts off their limbs etc. and not AFTERWARDS as Mengele. Thid indicates that his acting results from their behaviour and not the other way round. Now, the question is WHAT in their behaviour makes Tinker act the way he does. Or: What does he see?

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Re: Space in Cleansed- Chloe
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 09:04:13 PM »
Oh Jaidn, that is something that hadn't even occured to me, the Joseph Mengele thing...its quite comparable I think actually, well, I mean in terms of the experiments and stuff.

But I agree with you, the world that seems to exist in this play seems apart from everyday "reality" in many ways, as Jolka also pointed out, I think, a "microcosm" of the larger picture in some ways, tho after some of my experiences at the university as of late, I can also understand the link between that and the comment someone made about the "insular" effect of this, tho in my case, its been more Orwellian if anything! Paperwork! :)

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